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The Chinua Achebe Foundation Interview Series #32

Nigeria:
A Meeting of the Minds
(Mrs. Oyibo Odinamadu in Conversation with Obi Nwakanma Part 2)

by
The Chinua Achebe Foundation

Mrs. Oyibo Odinamadu,

Chinua Achebe

Prof. Chinua Achebe

 

Mrs. Oyibo odinamadu

Mrs. Oyibo Odinamadu

an icon of politics, civil rights and the women’s movement, made a name for herself as a leader of various women’s organizations and as a public servant in Nigeria. She was especially active in the founding of the National Council for Women Societies (NCWS) and was president of the Eastern Nigeria council from 1958 until she joined active partisan politics in 1978. She was the First National Vice-President of the Unity Party of Nigeria, and contested as the Deputy Gubernatorial candidate for the party in Anambra state. Educated at Lincoln University, Jefferson City, Missouri and at Columbia University, New York, Mrs. Odinamadu worked in the government of Eastern Nigeria, and retired voluntarily from the public service in 1971.  Mrs. Odinamadu talked to Obi Nwakanma in Raleigh, North Carolina, where she was visiting.

 

 

 

About Obi Nwakanma

 

Obi Nwakanma was educated at the Government College Umuahia, and studied at the University of Jos and at Washington University in St. Louis. He has completed work on the biography of the poet Christopher Okigbo. Obi Nwakanma also won the ANA/CADBURY prize for his collection of poems, The Roped Urn in 1996. He has worked as a journalist in Nigeria as Group Literary Editor of the Vanguard and correspondent for Newsweek and for the Nue Zurcher Zeitung. He continues to write a weekly column, “The Orbit” in the Sunday Vanguard. Obi Nwakanma currently teaches Literature of the Black Diaspora at the Saint Louis University, St. Louis, Missouri.

 

 

The Interview

_______________________________

 

What do you think about the current crisis in Onitsha involving MASSOB, NARTO, and the State?   

 

The current crisis in Onitsha is the

Mrs. Oyibo Odinamadu

Mrs. Oyibo Odinamadu

Federal Government’s reaction to what it views as confrontation and a very serious challenge to its authority. This reaction has been demonstrated in the very violent use of extreme force by the Government to exhibit its superior power and fire-power against the
MASSOB – an organization that professes a policy of “Non-violence.”  

 

I believe that through its agents, the Government, in its usual manner, had very seriously infiltrated the MASSOB in order to defeat its policy and agenda. It also used its political agents in manipulating the NARTO and other such organizations to foment disturbances and violence during MASSOB’s activities. Nonetheless, I feel that MASSOB was not vigilant enough to cry out about “the presence of wolves among them” before it was too late.

 

Do you think the crisis was properly handled by the Anambra State Government?

 

I think that the first thing in a situation of violence is to stop any on-going violence. And this is done by separating the violent parties, keeping them apart. On that score, I think it was a very good move to disband the warring organizations, that is, in effect, to separate them and render their members disconnected and incommunicado with each other, thereby, non-functional, for a period of time.

 

It was totally wrong for the demonstrators or protesters to release prisoners from the Prisons, as a way to spite the Government. This is in actual fact, cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face. The prisoners were put there after a due process of Law, and found to be dangerous to the society, and therefore, deserved different grades of punishment, ranging from short to long-term incarceration. Releasing them without due process of law is taking the law into their own hands; and taking the prisoners and the society back to square one and beyond, to the disadvantage of the society. How does the Government go about returning the prisoners to confinement? That some of the prisoners returned to the Prisons on their own was a great mark of either, their ethical standards, or their uncertainty as to whom and where to run to and what the next action should be. 

 

I condemned, in no uncertain terms, the posting of soldiers to patrol and maintain peace and security in Abia State, or in any other state of Nigeria, for that matter. I condemned it as a declaration of War through the back-door on the people by President Obasanjo. How can soldiers, whose orientation and training is to torture and kill, be spread all over the country to maintain peace, security, and order? Has the President accounted to the people about what has happened to the Nigeria Police and their responsibilities to the people?

 

From your experience in government, how would the Okpara Government have handled a similar scenario or conflict?

 

In my opinion, I think that Dr. Okpara’s Government would have done the first things,

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first, which is to separate the warring parties, and bring them to a position of negotiation on how to settle the matters amicably. Dr.
Okpara would have, very strongly, condemned the releasing prisoners, and brought the culprits to face the consequences of their action. He would have set the Police, which was a real and virile Police Force under that administration, to get on with the job of recovering the prisoners. The polity would have also been outraged and cooperated in every way possible to bring back the prisoners.

 

Dr. Okpara’s Government would not have called in soldiers to parade the place under false pretences of helping to keep peace and security, which function is the opposite of what they are trained to do. The Government of Premier Okpara would not have accepted the order that the citizens of the state should vacate their Home State. Non-indigenes of the State might have been ordered out of the State, as non-Easterners, including soldiers, were ordered to leave the Region during the Crisis of 1966. Usually, when people are banned from other states, they are deported to their Home States. To order the indigenes of a state to vacate their Home State is an extreme denial of human rights that could ever be taken on an individual –that is, to render him/her homeless and stateless.     

 

The Government of Dr. Okpara would not have, by any stretch of the imagination, acquiesced to the order to shoot anybody on sight. That is a declaration of War on the people, under false pretences, with the soldiers who have already been positioned there. The order to shoot at sight is an approval of mass murder, perpetration of genocide and totally lacking in any element of protection for the people’s lives and human rights.

 

It is Shame on President Obasanjo, Governor Peter Obi, Chris Uba and their collaborators for this declaration of War on Ndi Igbo and the Igbo Youth! OBJ is a soldier, and a soldier to the core, who cannot see any other way of handling the problems of the country he was mandated to govern, other than by sheer brute force. And the South-Eastern Nigeria is his permanent battle-ground! There is no doubt that OBJ is handling Ndi Igbo and the South-South with an iron hand; that he wants to see whether he could complete his job of complete destruction and annihilation of these peoples, before he vacates office in May, 2007. These activities of his are all the reasons why his going would, of course, be good riddance!

 

Right now, President Obasanjo is on the rampage throughout Southern Nigeria, especially in Igbo land! He should know that God is not happy with him, and will continue not to be happy with him if he does not stop this vandalism on Ndi Igbo and the people of the Delta State, of Bayelsa, forthwith, confess his sins and wickedness against the people and humanity, retrace his murderous steps, and make amends; before he leaves office in May, 2007.” Otherwise, God will confound him!

 

For Governor Peter Obi, this is his first activity and engagement with the people after taking over the administration of Anambra State from one who the due process of law ruled that he snatched the mandate. If this is an indication of the true sample of how Dr. Obi exercises the mandate, then he is riding the people rough-shod, and should get off it. If not, his days in office may be numbered less than he thinks. He should remember that he is first an Igbo, before he is a Nigerian, and then a political Governor of one of the States of Ana Igbo. Ndi Igbo have a saying that: “Ekesie n’obi, eke-e na mkpuke”: After sharing at the outer father’s chamber; the people would retire to the mother’s inner chamber to complete the sharing”.    

 

As for Chris Uba and his cohorts, who have no compunction in standing with OBJ in his bid for total destruction and annihilation of Ndi Igbo, their lives, property and  geographical space, I can only call their attention to a saying by Ndi Igbo, to the effect that: “Onye n’ako n’ubi Chukwu, Chukwu an’ako na ubi ya; mana onye n’alubi alubi n’ubi Chukwu, Chukwu an’alubi na ubi ya”, which means: “If somebody is doing good cultivation in God’s farm, God will also be doing good cultivation in the person’s farm; but if the person is doing destructive cultivation in God’s farm, certainly, God will be doing destructive work in the person’s farm”. 

 

I know their dear mother fairly well. In fact, we were friends; lived in the same neighbourhood on Zik Avenue, Uwani, Enugu; belonged to the same Church of Nigeria (Anglican Communion); and used to exchange friendly visits. Our contact with each other was discontinued since I have been on my present extended visit to the USA. I trust that she is hale and hearty. Knowing her as well as I do, I am sure that she would be most unhappy with her son’s political activities with the PDP and President Obasanjo; and now with the NARIO, which Chris Uba was said to have organized in order to get on with his anti-social activities in Igbo land.

 

I know that it may not mean anything to you, Chris Uba, what Ndi Igbo might feel and think about you, but it must be very disturbing to your dear mother. I want you to give her my regards and this message: “That she should do all that is in her power as a good mother to call her sons, especially you, Chris, to order, because Ndi Igbo, especially Ndi Anambra State, are not happy at all with you. This is so, because instead of being a nation-builder and a construction artist, you have constituted yourself into a cog in the wheel of progress; a spoiler and destroyer of Igbo lives, home, property and legacy. And besides, that God is not, and will continue not to be happy with you, if you do not stop this vandalism forthwith, confess your transgressions against Ndi Igbo and humanity, retrace your steps, and make amends, and make a right-about turn”.

 

 

How do you react to the phenomenom god-fatherism in Nigerian politics - particularly given the experience of Anambra and Oyo States?

 

The phenomenon of God-fatherism or King-maker in politics and societal life, is one that operates all over the world, but which has, like other practices in Nigeria, gotten out of-hand and thoroughly abused. This practice is among the ugly ones that have given Nigeria a very bad name and hung her up in the body politic, as well as in the comity of nations. There should be nothing wrong with a big brother/sister or father/mother or person with economic resources helping out a candidate of his/her choice to win an election or to achieve some laudable objectives. But the way it has been done or is being done in Nigeria, whereby such a god-father wants to take over exercising the powers of the office of his client completely, and to collect as much money as possible, as agreed in a pre-arranged contract, is ruining governance. This extends to the “god-father” not only dictating how the finances of the office should be disbursed, but indicating also how much of it he will be collecting on regular basis. Otherwise, the person he supports is removed from that office. This, in actual fact, is what has been done.

 

The person who entered into such a contract in order to win an election has, in effect, mortgaged his soul and those of the people he sought to be elected into in order to serve to his mentor; but has trifled away the life and destiny of the people of the State in exchange for his personal aggrandizement to be in that office. And in an effort to collect the dues from a commitment the client/public officer has decided not to honour, such public officer is hounded, dragged about; disgraced, impeached and very nearly killed, all for the sake of the “god-father,” for whom the exercise was merely a business venture and investment, to exact his “pound of flesh.”

 

In the case of Anambra State

 

Dr. Chris Ngige entered into

Mrs. Oyibo Odinamadu

Mrs. Oyibo Odinamadu

such an unholy alliance with Chris
Uba, with the full approval of President Obasanjo. Otherwise, how could Chris Uba have access to the Mobile Police Outfit, which he used to abduct Dr. Ngige from the State House and “imprisoned” him at a Hotel in Awka, until Vice President Atiku Abubakar, in the absence of the President who was abroad, brokered the peace that withdrew the contingent of the Mobile Police, and returned Dr. Ngige to his office? And then Chris Uba, still in his effort to collect from Dr. Ngige, a sizeable portion of loot that is likely to reach the President, ( in the same vein that the collections of the Police Constables at check-points reach the Inspector-General of Police), continued to institute impeachment on Dr. Ngige, to remove him and to install his deputy. The saving grace was that the Court Judge who was to swear in the Deputy Governor, refused to do so, and ran away.

 

To what extent did the two “Chrises” not go to contain each other? They went from the above to swearing by the Holy Bible to patronizing the Okija Shrines, and culminating in the destruction of Anambra State by arson by Chris Uba and his agents. This is a State that started on a very clean slate in 1991 – without any kind of infrastructure - having left everything at Enugu for Enugu State. The State had just been created and shown to an empty expanse of land, known as “Agu Awka,” that is “the Farmlands of Awka”. But with imagination, ingenuity, belief and trust in God’s magnanimity, Ndi Anambra State started to build a state that would measure up to and compete with all the other much older and richer States, from scratch. It was whatever that had been constructed, in addition to the old Onitsha Provincial Resident’s House at Amawbia, which was used as the Anambra State’s Residence for the Governor,  Dr. Ngige, that Chris Uba and his agents razed to the ground; the records, ancient and new, inclusive.  

 

It is obvious that Chris Uba was not doing all this just for the money he would have collected from Dr. Chris Ngige. I believe that he was executing a well-calculated plan of the destruction of the new Anambra to keep it from existence at all! What did the President say or do in all this? “Something”- eminently something - to write home about; and that was his most outstanding statement of his whole administration: “That if Dr. Ngige was in agreement with Chris Uba, he should go and settle him! That sort of statement, in the face of all that threat and destruction, left no doubt in people’s minds that Obasanjo was behind it all. That undoubtedly confirmed the old adage of Ndi Igbo that: “Onye nna ya zili ori n’eji okpa agbawa mgbo”, that is: “The person who was sent to steal by his father breaks the door with a loud, thunderous bang”. That was it!

 

 

In the case of Oyo State


Chief
Adedibu who sponsored Governor Ladoja, wanted to be the one to call the shots, especially about how Gov. Ladoja would spend his Security Allocation of N50M monthly. Out of this, Chief Adedibu wanted “a mere N15M monthly.” Governor Ladoja ran to the President for rescue only to get a promise that the President would look into the matter. But on getting back home, he was greeted with an impeachment exercise organized and finalized by Chief Adedibu, with a view to removing the Governor and installing his deputy. That was when, in an attempt to garner the two-thirds majority required, the Chief Richard Akinjide type of “fuzzy” Arithmetic, which got the runoff in the 1983 Presidential Elections cancelled, reared its ugly head again.

 

As we all recall, Chief Akinjide’s “fuzzy” Arithmetic meant that two-thirds of 19 States, as they were at that time, was thirteen and two two-thirds of a State or a person, which the NEC accepted as tenable and practicable. Therefore, the runoff election, which would have taken place between Alhaji Shehu Shagari’s ticket and a candidate of the Progressive Parties Alliance (PPA comprising the NPP, UPN, GNPP, NEPU) was called off, and victory was again granted to the Alhaji Shehu Shagari and Dr.Alex Ekwueme ticket. It was this second-term administration that the military intervention of Alhaji Buhari and Tunde Idiagbon overthrew in August 1984.

 

But in the case of Chief Adedibu, he achieved the two thirds majority in the Oyo twenty-five member Assembly, sitting and voting, by sending nine of them on vacation, and convening the House with the remaining members. Having gotten his two-thirds of a fixed number sitting, he sacked the Governor, and installed his deputy. When Gov. Ladoja ran back to the President to give him an up-date, the President told him that he was coming to Oyo. Evidently, it was in the effort of the President to bend backwards to help Governor Ladoja, that at the public meeting arranged by Governor Ladoja with Chief Adedibu, that President Obasanjo presented the very worst of his public image of his administration: He prostrated to Chief Adedibu, belly flat on the ground, and begged him to let go of Governor Ladoja. Probably, being a citizen of an ethnic culture where prostrating is an accepted form of greeting and submitting to an  elder, the President did not realize that he had dragged the whole of Nigeria in prostrating to Chief Adedibu. Worst of all is that he still did not get Chief Adedibu to forgive Gov. Ladoja and to go easy on his demands from him. What a thoroughly, crying out shame!           

 

What in your view led to this peculiar type of shadow authority?

 

This type of shadow authority is a demonstration of the lack of any kind of respect, even for the high office that persons in public office, even if sponsored, occupy. It is downright uncivilized; greedy; avaricious; corrupt; limitless; and a complete disregard of public opinion. “Godfathers” make nonsense of the electoral process, by which they want to be not only the “king-maker,” but the “king” through the back-door. These individuals only see things from the point of view of the money they spent on a “business venture and investment,” and which returns they must collect. Otherwise the whole thing becomes a bad investment and a failure. This shadow authority inflicts a slap-in-the-face on office holders and Nigeria, as a whole. The worst part of the whole ugly procedure is that the President of Nigeria is in support all this monkey-business. If not, he would have been able to nip in the bud, at least, the instances that came to his attention.  

 

Godfatherism and election-rigging are OBJ’s stock-in-trade. Right from the 1979 Presidential Elections when he first informed Chief Awolowo of his intentions, and then proceeded to rig him out his victory in the Elections, to prevent him from probing the Military. He has also institutionalized election-rigging in Nigeria. This is because he himself is steeped in these vile practices, and has rigged himself into office each time. These practices have also become part of his policies and legacies. That is why his War against Corruption was a colossal failure: an unmitigated failure, because he was also selective in his choice of the people to go after. These practices are not going to cool down or go away until President Obasanjo leaves office in May 2007. Then, Nigerians will have a chance to make a round-about turn under a new leadership, which they can look forward to as indeed new and refreshing. Nigeria needs a respite desperately, and a compassionate change. It is time.

 

What has changed in the time you became active in the NCWS and the place of Nigerian women today.

 

Actually, I did not just become active in the NCWS; I was a founding and foundation

member of the organization in 1958. I mentioned earlier that as soon as I finished with my graduate studies in 1953, I decided to go home. I wanted to help young people get on with their education, as well as get into the nationalist struggle, and I later joined the
Zikist Movement in Port Harcourt in 1947, as a result. But when I first returned, since I sought and took up employment in the Public Service, I could not join a Political Party. However, I found fulfillment in organizing women on a cosmopolitan, voluntary, charitable, non-religious, non-profit, basis, and still kept my employment in the Public Service. Even though these activities took me outside the sphere of my employment quite often, I was left alone by my bosses. In any case, my husband was very supportive.        

 

At the time, men were quite unwilling to let their wives attend meetings of organizations that were not religious; in village associations and market unions men could know what was going on. It was an uphill task to get women to break those bonds and attend the meetings of organizations that did not quite fit the requirements of their husbands. But they started to come out gradually; to participate, and even go on representations to conferences and seminars, even beyond West Africa.

 

We organized Leadership Training Courses to acquaint women with voluntary and charitable work, and what officers of such organizations were expected to do. We also explored fundamental human rights, and how they applied to women as wives and mothers, and to their children. 

 

More girls started to attend school; but the proportion of girls to boys in schools was still deplorable, until the Nigeria/Biafra War acted as a catalyst; an eye and mind-opener for Igbo men to appreciate that, even though their daughters might not carry their family names after marriage, many had survived the War due to the hard work, attention and care of wives and daughters.

 

Of major concern was for the girl-child to have equal opportunity as the boy-child for secondary and tertiary education. There was also the need for employment opportunities to open up for the girl-child as much as for the boy-child at each stage of their education. We also demanded better working conditions for women, especially to enjoy the same working conditions as men; and even extra maternity and sick leave.     

 

We also demanded that women were not only employed, but promoted in due time, and to be appointed to policy and decision-making positions. Some action was seen in this direction, but improvement was more or less cosmetic or a window-dressing where you found one woman among twenty to fifty men or none at all; as in the “fifty wise men” who drafted the 1979 Nigerian Constitution.   

 

Do you think Nigerian women have arrived at the dream your generation of women activists set out to accomplish?

 

Of course not! Far, far from it!  Women have come a long way, though, and not by a sudden flight. Today we no longer have to pressurize women into attending meetings of cosmopolitan organizations; they are even organizing some themselves. Nigerian women, even Igbo women, have entered the field of partisan politics, and are pushing right into it, with or without Affirmative Action. It is no longer necessary for women to obtain the written consent of their husbands to even travel locally, or to obtain a passport; they are traveling all over the world for whatever purpose – education, business, conferences, politics, holidays, health purposes, visiting with children, family members and friends.

 

The outstanding recommendation of the International Women’s Year 1975 was that the Federal Government should set up a Commission on the Status of Women. The Commission was set up ten years later, in 1985. It took this long because the Military Boys did not want to know about it. However they set up the Better Life Program for Rural Women, which was replaced by the Family Support Program (FSP) in 1994. This Programme was upgraded to the Ministry of Women Affairs and Social Development in 1994, and is run by Ms. Rita Akpan as Minister. The Ministry is doing a very good job of studying, delving into, and executing solutions for women’s problems, as well as representing women at national and international forums such as the Committee on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women; and the Beijing Conference. The establishment of the Center for the Advancement of Women is particularly effective.    

 

Today, Nigerian women are in almost every profession, and are displacing men in quick succession. Women used to be confined to employment as teachers, nurses and even that, at the lowest echelons. But they have worked quietly; slowly but steadily, and have come up from the grassroots; not as mere sprinkling, frosting, or window-dressing any longer, but in strengths to take over in quite a few areas. Teaching and administration of primary and secondary education, and tertiary-institution professorships are a few of such disciplines. A few are also in administration. Women, of course, are in the nursing profession in all grades; they are in pharmacy, the medical field; architecture and engineering. They practice the law as attorneys; magistrates and judges, they are economists and finance experts, as well. They are in law enforcement as agents, in the armed forces; they function as law-makers; permanent secretaries, directors-general; chairpersons of boards of parastatals, and of corporations.

 

Except in the Roman Catholic Church, and in the Church of Nigeria (Anglican Communion), they are holding their own, and putting men to shame by their shinning examples of performances. Women even work in construction, carrying materials - cement, sand, gravel, water, wood, mixing concrete in head-pans to the masons. Pretty soon, they are going to be actual builder; putting up walls, roofs and ceilings and painting them. That will happen in Igbo land once women and girl-children can wearing pants or trousers.

 

There are no female governors, yet; but there has been a woman deputy-governor. The exclusion of women is due primarily to the chauvinistic stances of men in political parties, who view a position opened to women as one lost to men. My humble self is a typical example of that act of discrimination and exclusion by male members of my political party, at the State level. Most of Nigerian men still think and believe that the place of the woman is in the house and kitchen. The good news is that some other men are very much emancipated and forward-looking about the advancement of women. Now that Liberia has put Nigeria to shame by electing the first African woman President, may be Nigerian political parties will wake up to the possibility and realities of nominating and electing a woman governor “with immediate alacrity,” as Zebrudaya would say. Perhaps, a female President will follow in the very near future. I pray God to spare my life to see these developments, because it is said that: Onye diruka, o’vuruka. “The longer one lives, the more s/he witnesses.”  

 

When people talk about the greatness of Nigeria, I really wonder what is meant by that. I would like to ask President Obasanjo what he sees as the greatness of Nigeria, and the contributions of his two-term Government. This is in the stark realities of:

i.                   at least fifty-percent of Nigeria’s population – womenfolk - are still stark illiterate;

ii.                the generality of women and the girl-child, in all ethnic nationalities, are so downtrodden by oppressive cultural practices, to the approval of  their men-folk;

iii.              women have to fight tooth and nail for any advancement, any ground gained in education, employment, freedom to travel, political participation, etc;   

iv.              men still do not see anything wrong with girl-childhood marriage, in

v.                 which biologically undeveloped and immature girls are put in the family-way; mostly by men old enough to be their fathers and grand-fathers;

vi.              young girls either dying or ruined for life by obstetric fistula, which is the

vii.            tearing of the female reproductive system at the time of delivering babies, unaided medically;

vi.              high maternal and infant mortality at birth, as well as the toll of malaria,

            diarrhea and malnutrition;